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25 February 2007

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TheManTheMyth

Commentors 2 and 3 said it all--if you combine their comments it comes out like this---(1) any subtraction from the income tax would be back x2 within two years, because (2) the gas tax is "regressive" and only harms "the poor." Duh.

Doug Colllins

"The car is freedom to a certain extent, but we are now slaves to it and in many areas its single dominance actually reduces freedom and mobility...."

I think George Orwell already said this in a different context.

Big Tex

Your comment that an increase in gas taxes by a dollar would lead to lower demand and prices would subsequently fall is not entirely true.

higher gas tax = higher cost per gallon = less revenues for oil and gas companies = less capital investments in exploration = less future production = higher costs per gallon

CS

"Our consumption problem isn't wealthy people driving Hummers etc - it's poor people still driving big SUVs & pickups. Somehow this has to change."

Damn those poor people!

Joseph Somsel

re Dave at 11:23 -

Now there's an Orwellian formulation for you:

"Slaves to freedom."

Is he also implying that a higher gas tax will reduce obesity or is that the other way around?

Seriously, any increased cost of transportation of goods and people will of course reduce the trivial and wasteful expenditures but will also cut into our economic muscle by slashing productivity.

Personally, I could drive to work at 20 minutes a day or take public transport for 90 minutes a day. (Times are R/T and in San Jose.)

In SF, public transport is often the most time-efficent means of transport but then, it is one of the top two or three amongst US locales in population density.

TheManTheMyth

I live in SF and trust me, it is virtually never the most time-efficient means of transport (unless you live one block from a BART stop and are traveling one BART stop down the line). The problem with public transportation is the "public" part. You can't have government without waste, inefficiency, and outright idiocy.

engineer25

Don't just tax gasoline, but also put equivalent excises on diesel, jet fuel, coal and natural gas. At that point everything gets more expensive from lettuce to private jets. The more you consume, the more carbon taxes you'll pay. On net, it will still be regressive, but now the difference will be between on the savings rate between our hypthetical millionaire who consumes $900k a year in stuff (much more than gas for his/her Hummer/Rolls-Royce) compared to Joe Sixpack's $40,000/year.

The energy bill will be more wide-spread and costly so steeper cuts in income tax will be necessary to stay revenue-neutral.

guyinadiner

We have a census; we know where people are. Why not a $5/gal tax for yhe most dense urban areas and zero or negative gas tax for rural areas with scaled rates for everything in between. I could live with this if some of the tax proceeds were used for a GSE to fund and impose standards on urban mass transit. I have no problem with clean, safe and efficient public transportation.

jj mollo

I think this is a great idea. I don't understand the resistance to it. There are obviously a lot of commenters above who express themselves in terms of market economics, but just have a mental short-circuit every time they hear the word taxes. Taxes are a fact of life.

There is no reason that it has to be exactly a dollar, or the same everywhere. I personally think that the gas tax should be regulated, just as we control the money supply, by the Federal Reserve with an eye to 1) reduce consumption, 2) control inflation, 3) promote independence and 4) stabilize the price of carbon fuel. For example, very time the price is raised by OPEC or Gazprom or some other foreign entitiy, we should prevent the price from falling by raising taxes to keep it high. This will prevent future episodes of extortion and put us on the path to energy independence. If the price stays up, the innovative power of the market system will find ways to provide alternative energy sources, improve efficiency and spread the burden.

Yes, it will be hard on truck drivers and poor people, but the real damage to these groups was done by allowing such massive inports in the first place. You can't really tell me that we have already picked the low-hanging fruit with respect to energy savings. Trucks on the highway today are overpowered and inefficient. Bush wants to encourage nuclear power and ethanol. I think this tax would be the best way to do so.

TheManTheMyth

Death is a fact of live too. So are you willing to volunteer to be the first?

TheManTheMyth

Live=life. Damn Ben Franklin and his death, misspellings, and taxes! :-)

Anon

While the goal of reducing emissions may appear noble, a mechanism such as this can be counted on to produce myriad other effects, most of them unforseen and undesirable.

Such a proposal illustrates the well known "Rewarding A while hoping for B" fallacy.
Are you a congressman? If not, you fooled me.

John

I got a better idea. Lower spending by 50 cents a gallon and get rid the tax we have now.

Furthermore, it is extremely premature and irresponsible to conclude that human produced CO2 is warming the eath significantly. It is far more likely that the sun is responsible. Its all politics....I don't understand why there is no skepticism!?!...look who is claioming anthropomorphic global warming is going to kill us all...lefties, the media, and gore. Do you believe anything else they say. Jeeze where is the skepticism!

How about we figure out how to make energy cost less so we can have a higher standard of living.

jimmy

I've made the case many times before that it makes sense to index the real cost of gasoline to the price we pay at the pump.

The problem with this is that gasoline taxes are considered regressive... certainly not progressive like the income tax... so any change like this would be interpreted as an attack on the poor.

Tman

Many people talk about the connection between our need for oil and oil producing "countries that are, shall we say, troublesome".

The problems associated with our reliance on oil producing nations that support the idea of (or who openly call for) our nations demise will not change if we stop buying their oil. There are plenty of other nations who will buy the same oil, and honestly that's not the reason these folks are mad at us.


Our nation is built on the idea that freedom isn't dependent on the blessing of the government, and our prosperity is directly related to our ability to make our own choices. The more you take away these choices, the more we become like everyone else.

Don't forget, everyone "equal" in theory means everyone "equally miserable" in practice.

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